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Topic: The Depths
UsernameDate postedText
Jeriah2013-07-16 23:01:28So, I just found The Treasure on level 20, but it doesn't seem to do anything. I mean, it gives me a trillion gold that I can't throw into the wells, but that's it. Any hints on what to do with it?

Oh, and I really, really hope you don't say "leave the dungeon with it", because I physically can't. The stairs that went down from level 2 to level 3 are on the same tile as the hole from level 3 down to level 4, so there is absolutely NO way to go back up.
Jimmy2013-07-17 08:03:55Cool, nice to hear someone made it. But sorry, the game still doesn't have an ending yet, I really should add a message when you pick it up.

And that's a huge bug, I'll have to fix that. I'm close to done with a new build, but it's mostly tutorials... A few people have never played this type of game and are having trouble with the basics.

How was your trip back up? Did you have enough food?
Jeriah2013-07-17 08:56:53Yeah, I had enough food. My only complaint is not being able to finish the game and apparently needing to start over again.

Also, I have not found a single identify scroll in my last 4 play through, though I found them before that. I don't know if their drop rate changed in a recent update or not, but I haven't seen one in a long time.
Jeriah2013-07-17 08:59:33If it makes a difference, I'm playing on the Q10.
Jeriah2013-07-17 09:06:26Sorry for the multiposting.

Of note, I always, always spend my first two skill points on stamina and regen and almost always max those out before spending points on anything else. If you don't max out stamina early, then you're not going to live long enough for the other skills to matter, unless you carry nothing but food.

Also, the wait button is worthless. It consumes 1 stamina every time you tap it but does not always regenerate health. It's much more efficient to stand against a wall and hold down the walk button until your health regenerates. You should really tweak how the wait command calculates costs. As it is, it's just a trap.
Jimmy2013-07-17 09:52:16Again, sorry about the lack of an ending, that'll come in time, I'm still fleshing out the content.

ATM, the scroll type is completely random, I'll make a note and change it soon so you'll at least get a few of the common types, like Identify, Enhance & Remove Curse.

Good point on the wait button, I don't think I've touched that code since I put it in, ya, it's pretty wasteful. I'll fix that up.

The last couple of games I played, I reached the treasure, but I didn't put anything into regen or stamina. I've generally taken Critical, Agility then my weapon type. But I usually don't scourer each floor, so I don't use too much food. And I often get lucky with stamina potions. That said, I doubt I would have been able to get back to the surface.

And thanks for the feedback... you've added a lot to my todo list.
Jeriah2013-07-17 19:59:37I usually find 2 or 3 enhance scrolls, and I almost always find a +3 weapon around level 12. Last game, I had a +6 short sword and +3 on all my armors.

There are stamina potions? Huh. I haven't come across one of those yet.
Rizban2013-07-19 14:02:12Had similar issues. In my current play through, I've had two different floors with the entrance and exit on the same tile.

As to tutorials, one explaining what all the different items do would be great. Still trying to figure out what one or two things are supposed to do.
Jimmy2013-07-20 11:52:07I fixed the entrance/exit on same tile bug, along with most bugs mentioned here. I'll post the new build tonight, but it usually takes a day or two to spread.

As for tutorials, I only have a couple of basic ones ATM. But they should be easier to add in the future. If you have any questions about specific items, I can answer you here if you want.
Rizban2013-07-22 17:08:47On the Q10, the Tutorials button occludes the New Game button, and it also seems to move to the right a fair bit after it's first displayed.

Tutorial 1: In the initial message, you might want to include which keys on the keyboard actually do the moving. Non-gamers will end up pushing random buttons, and gamers will tend to default to the WASD setup.
On the virtual D-pad, you might want to indicate that it's in the bottom left corner, just to make certain there's no confusion.

Tutorial 2: The combat tutorial should have some basic information on the different weapons, particularly on ranged weapons. It definitely needs to teach players how to use a bow. I'm a pretty avid gamer, and it took me a few minutes to realize that you had to equip the arrows too instead of just having them in your pack.
Rizban2013-07-22 17:15:22The last two times I've played, the game crashes on death. I didn't spot any sleeping monsters, so I can't say whether or not it's the same bug.
Jimmy2013-07-22 20:50:10Good call on showing keys. I'll add that or at least mention there's a control page.

I was planning a dedicated ranged weapon tutorial. I'll be adding more as I go, but I'm hoping to do more content again first.

Shame about the crash... I never test enough before sending out a build, it's usually something trivial. I'll post another when I get a chance.
Jimmy2013-07-23 07:41:38Looked around for the crash a bit, the only thing I can find is hitting the wait key (z) causes the game to crash if the player is dead. I'll keep an eye out for others.
Rizban2013-07-24 19:54:24What does a rogue's "intrinsic knowledge of potions" mean? I had assumed it meant all potions were automatically identified, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

The same question for a wizard's intrinsic knowledge of wands/scrolls.

What purpose do water potions serve? They don't seem to do anything and don't come in an unidentified version. It seems like a random, worthless item at the moment.
Jimmy2013-07-26 08:10:44I don't have the numbers with me but rogues and mages start with a few items id'ed. All other classes start with none.

As for water, I may have coded some uses if the water is blessed. I'll check next time I'm in the code. And ya, water is always identified. It will be more useful once I have fire coded up as a status effect.
Rizban2013-07-29 16:46:34If you cancel out of casting an identify scroll, you still lose the scroll. I believe this also happens with purify.
Jimmy2013-07-29 22:37:51Yep, that's by design. It should show a little 'fizzle' text over the player. Using a scroll will always force you to use it's effect, and there are cases where the player has no items left in their inventory, so I needed to put in a cancel.

Which reminds me, I need to add a cancel to wands for cases where no creatures are around. You don't want to target most wands at yourself. Walls can be targeted ATM, but that's not really a clean solution and it might be possible for there to be no walls on-screen in cave levels.
Rizban2013-08-09 15:06:34What does the blessed property on weapons and armor do?
Jimmy2013-08-09 19:04:19Nothing, ATM blessed affects potions, scrolls, potions and food. Glad you asked though, searching the code it turns out I made blessed water hurt "undead", but not blessed weapons. I'll add bonus damage to weapons, possibly damage if undead hit you when you're wearing bless armor/shield.

Also, I've been busy so I'm taking forever getting a new build out, but I'm hoping to submit one this weekend.
Rizban2013-08-13 19:03:00Swap wands work on walls. I accidentally just trapped myself in a wall trying to identify a wand... Looks like I have to quit and start a new game now.

Also, tapping the wait button with throwing knives equipped can crash the game. I'm not sure if you have to be next to a wall and take damage from your own knife or not.
Jimmy2013-08-14 07:48:00I knew about the wall thing, been meaning to fix it, wand targeting doesn't check line of sight. If you had any charges left you could have gotten out, or a chance of escape if you threw the wand.

I'll look into the crash, but I'm away from my pc until next Monday. Curious to see what I screwed up this time :)
Rizban2013-09-13 20:36:08Not sure if this is intentional or not, but the little blue guy who shoot magic at you can attack through closed doors.

I've also noticed the the dog gets stuck sometimes. If you use a haste potion, he gets left behind and stops moving. If there's a monster on the other side of a wall (especially near a bend in a hallway) he'll stop and try to attack the monster instead of following, requiring you to go kill the monster then come back for him after.
Rizban2013-09-13 21:20:25Using a poison scroll hurts your dog.
Jimmy2013-09-14 09:12:27Thanks. Those are all good bugs. I had a feeling I was rushing the pet thing, I didn't test it nearly enough. And I didn't get a leveling system in place for them, so they become relatively weak a few floors down.

The only intentional one in the list is haste, if your dog falls too far behind it'll just wander around randomly like most monsters. That can also happen if you leave it behind while it's fighting a monster. I think the limit is around 5 tiles ATM, I can increase that but it won't really help with haste.
Rizban2013-09-17 16:19:47The warthogs are still the deadliest enemy in the game. They hit pretty hard and more often than anything else. If I'm flanked by a warthog and a dragon, I'd ignore the dragon and attack the warthog. With a +5 shield, +4 belt, +6 helm, and max Agility, the warhogs still hit me almost every time while I can at least defend against a dragon about half the time.
Jimmy2013-09-17 19:02:32Just looked at my tables. I have them named Boars, but they look like warthogs, so I'll assume we're talking about the same enemy. On paper, Dragons outpower Boars by quite a bit, they have double the HP, do twice as much damage, have marginally more armor, and both have the same chance to hit. Dragons should also be pretty rare. There might be some bug with the graphics or math, next time you see them give one a tap to see their info page. There's a little known fact that for every 20 kills on a given enemy, you'll see more of their stats. I'll do some tests in the meantime.

Also, crazy equipment, you must be ID'ing the enhance scrolls early on.
Rizban2013-09-18 08:55:43Well, the dragons were hitting for 30-35 damage, but they could only hit about 1 in 4 attacks. I killed 5 dragons on that run.

The boars were hitting for 15-20 damage, but they hit 3 in every 4 attacks. I killed about 15 of those that run and eventually died to one.

Of all the monsters, my personal experience rates dragons as strongest, followed by vampires, then boars as third strongest but only marginally weaker than vampires.

Actually, I used only two enhance scrolls the entire game. One was blessed, giving me an extra +2 on my +4 helm. The other increased my sword from +2 to +3. The rest I found as is.
Rizban2013-09-20 11:21:52I was thinking, cursed gear is pretty hard to remove, especially given the rarity (or complete absence) of purify scrolls in some instances. Now that you've included some friendly NPCS, I had a suggestion. What about a small temple with a priest of some sort? For a fee, he could offer healing and removal of curses.
Jimmy2013-09-20 22:02:55I've had an altar with required donations to remove curses and bless items very high on my todo list for a while. Adding a priest NPC to go along with it is a great idea, I'll try to get that in soon. Thanks.
Rizban2013-09-27 04:29:50If you have a cursed weapon equipped to your off hand, "swap weapons" allows you to move it to your main hand, but not the other way around.
Rizban2013-10-05 22:21:56In my current run, I used a wand on a monster, and it turned me into that monster. Now my dog is attacking me...
Jimmy2013-10-05 22:41:59nice. ya, cursed wand of swap places. sorry about that one, there's no turning back... somehow fixing that slipped down the todo list, it's pretty rare :)

Funny to hear the dog attacks you, I put the wand in before putting in pets and never considered that scenario.
Rizban2013-10-06 10:54:02Seriously though, a wand that basically ends the game if you use it isn't a great idea...

It did have two charges though, so I suppose I could try to find a vampire or dragon for the other charge.
Jimmy2013-10-06 18:33:13I just spent a couple of hours cleaning up the entire polymorph thing(and other things), it was quite broken with only your dog, shopkeeps and priests being aggressive towards you and all enemies ignoring you. Also there were a ton of bugs switching levels, leveling up and saving/loading as an enemy type. I think I got it all working cleanly now.

I added a 'cure all afflictions' button when standing next to a priest that heals, gives stamina, removes all status effects and turns you back into a human. All for fairly cheap. I also fixed all priest prices to work with barter skill.

Anyway, I'll probably wait a week before submitting the build to get some other things in and since I'm still waiting for yesterday's build to get approved.
Rizban2013-10-08 12:06:10Clicking "use" on a whetstone only closes the inventory.
Rizban2013-10-08 12:13:13Found a priest. Couldn't get any options to actually do anything there. What am I missing?
Jimmy2013-10-08 12:16:42Ya, I noticed that yesterday, 'use' shouldn't be there. The main problem is I never put in a tutorial or any instructions on how to 'mix' items. TBH, there's no indication the feature even exists.

On the inventory screen, drag your blade to the whetstone or vice versa. There are a few other combos that work, but I don't want to give away everything...
Jimmy2013-10-08 12:19:12Priest options are hidden in your inventory under each item. There should be new buttons for:
- check if cursed
- remove curse
- bless
only one button will appear based on the item's current state.(not ID'ed, cursed or uncursed)
Rizban2013-10-10 13:18:10If you're broke when you check to see if an item is cursed, it breaks the priest. You can no longer use any of the options, even if you come back later with gold.
Jimmy2013-10-10 16:12:32Thanks. I've rewritten a bunch of that code, so I'll take a look when I get home from work to see if it still happens.
Rizban2013-10-10 16:45:24Buying cursed items from a store gives you twice as much gold as you had to pay to sell it to the shop, allowing you to produce infinite amounts of gold.
Rizban2013-10-10 16:53:56The priest talks to you when you pass through doors near the chapel but not actually the chapel door.
Rizban2013-10-10 16:59:51Can you make identify, purify, and enhance scrolls require confirmation to use? It frequently makes you use them on the wrong item if you don't get your finger off of the screen fast enough after clicking "use".
Rizban2013-10-10 17:03:39Whetstones stack with one another regardless of blessed/cursed status. If you pick up a blessed one first, they all become blessed as they stack. The same with cursed.
Jimmy2013-10-10 19:14:35k, I still haven't set up special stacking rules for cursed/uncursed/blessed items. I'll take away that status from whetstones, currently there's no difference if they are cursed or not.
Jimmy2013-10-10 19:57:23I missed your other comments, but looked into all these issues before responding. And again, thanks for the bug reports, they're a big help. We might want to create more threads, this one is getting big and I'm too lazy to code 'pages' into my forums.

I couldn't reproduce the priest options not working after a 'broke' message, but that's probably from me rewriting the code to work with the barter skill.

I can't find a case of the sell price being higher than the buy price, I even raised my barter to 3(30%) and the best I can find are certain items(e.g. food) buy and sell for the same price, but most others you end up losing money if you buy/sell. I don't currently adjust prices based on bless/curse either(I'll add that to my todo list). Can you give more details? sounds like a pretty major bug.

NPC talking is a complete hack ATM. I'll clean it up later, it's not a big deal, but I'll make a note.

'Reading' a scroll(ID, purify, etc) happens on 'finger up' so it shouldn't catch on the next screen, but since touchscreens aren't as accurate as my mouse button, I put in a small delay that locks the inventory screen to help with the issue. I'd rather not put a confirm, but I'll test more and if it's still a problem, I'll fix it again(maybe with a confirm).

Fixed whetstones, they only come in plain uncursed flavour now.
Rizban2013-10-10 23:06:02Sorry, not cursed items. And item with a negative enhancement value. E.g., sell. -3 helmet for -25gp, causing you to lose 25 gold. Buy it back for -51gp, causing you to gain 51 gold for a net profit of 26. Cycle it a few times, and you've got all the gold you'll ever need.
Jimmy2013-10-11 09:52:56Perfect, that makes sense. I'll cap sell prices at 0g and buy at 1g, that should solve it. I might post a build this weekend since the fixes are piling up, I'll see if I have time.
Rizban2013-10-11 17:27:36With that said, I do think that the gold drops should be increased a bit. As they are, gold is pretty scarce, even with selling items.
DeepOne2013-10-16 13:05:31The Depths is a splendid little game, Jimmi! - That said, do you think you could do something about the Slime exploit? - As matters are now, I'll throw food and scrolls at Slimes, doing ping damage, which causes them to multiply ad infinitum, giving me drops and XP beyond avarice. :D Maybe multiplied Slime shouldn't give XP or generate drops?
Jimmy2013-10-16 15:28:47Thanks! and welcome to the forum. and um... don't throw things at slimes :)

I never noticed the XP boosting, that's a good point and easily fixed, I'll divide up the xp when they split... you might still benefit from rounding errors. The extra drops didn't bother me much, but your probably right, I should put a limit on it. I'll take a look at how easily I can do it. I'd also like to scale their size based on number of splits, it's one of the things pretty far down on the todo list.
Rizban2013-10-18 04:11:31Using a cursed swap wand on a wall turns you into a slime then freezes the game. Only solution is to start a new game.
Jimmy2013-10-18 07:28:12Weird, I have a special case for that and just retested it. If you cursed swap with a wall, you should turn to stone and the game ends. You're playing the new build? I can see the slime/freeze thing happening with the old one.
DeepOne2014-03-22 06:10:01Thank you very much for your recent updates, Jimmy. I especially like the Charm Wand.
Jimmy2014-03-23 10:38:15Ya, Charm is nice, it's fun to explore with a small army.

I'm hopefully done with my code cleanup, I'll likely start adding new stuff when I find free time.
koncrazyboy2014-05-04 01:54:37I've just started the game. Pretty great game!!

Is there any guide on the combine feature? Like combine list or anything of that sort?

And how come some potions are still under un-ID'ed even after i used them before. How many do i need to use before it becomes ID-ed or is it never gonna be ID?

And how many types of scrolls are there and their uses?
Jimmy2014-05-04 08:31:16Thanks!

No guide anywhere that I know of, but off the top of my head, the most useful combine is whetstones with weapons to sharpen them. Other than that, there are a few involving potions(not mixing them together yet) that ATM are a bit too limited. One is quite useful, but I like secrets :) I'll be adding more in the future.

For now ID'ing is completely manual. After you use something, a 'name item used' box should appear at the top of the screen. I'm considering going to the more traditional auto-ID system most games use, but for now I like having to pay attention.

There are 11 potion types, 10 scroll types and 9 wand types, most with separate cursed/normal/blessed actions. You can find a list of all their uses(mixed together) on the 'name item' screen.

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